Over the past year I have added quite a few more public domain titles to my collection. So I thought it might be useful to do another round of listening tests to see if my initial impressions are still accurate.
In my previous post I went into quite a bit of detail about the legality and morality of public domain recordings, so I won't repeat any of that here. However, I will note that since I last checked, I've found five more public domain labels: Spellbound, Wax Love, Matchball Records, Spiral Records and Del Ray Records. The latter two are both spin-offs of the Barcelona-based WaxTime Records. WaxTime's stable now includes the lion's share of the public domain labels, including, in addition to Spiral and Del Ray, Jazz Classics, Jazz Wax, Pan Am, Vinyl Lovers, and WaxTime. I don't know why they keep creating more labels -- there must be some marketing or legal reasons. I would note that Del Ray Records is not a jazz label per se, but is reissuing vintage vocal records by artists such as Ray Charles, Connie Francis, and Nat King Cole. Several of the other public domain jazz labels have also added some early rock, blues, and vocal titles.
The Shootout, Part 2
I have selected ten more reissues and compared them to licensed digital copies of the same album. It would be really interesting to compare the public domain reissues to original vinyl releases, but the whole point of buying public domain releases (at least for me) is that they allow me to own mint vinyl copies of rare and expensive jazz albums that would be extremely hard to find and nearly impossible to afford.
As before, I list the public domain label, catalog number, artist, and title. Following that in parentheses are the label, catalog number, year, and country (if not the US) for each of the CDs I used for comparison.
Matchball 29015, Billie Holiday, Lady In Satin (mono);
(Columbia CK 65144, 1997)
Like the Jazz Images label, Matchbox uses alternative cover art. The CD has more air, more separation, and more high-end definition, particularly in the strings. The top end is smoothed off on the vinyl, and the strings sound like they are glued together. Holiday's voice is clearer and more natural-sounding on the CD. Holiday's wispy phrasing is a bit too burnished on the vinyl. I'll take the CD.
This is released on the WaxTime 500 sublabel, which claims to be "strictly limited" to only 500 copies. This is a great-sounding LP. It has wonderful tone and texture. The piano sounds natural and analog. The soundstage is superb, the rhythm section is tight and in the pocket. It sounds like a high-end US audiophile repressing. The CD, by comparison, is tinny and etched. The vinyl is a no brainer.
Pan Am Records 9152290, Jim Hall Trio, The Complete "Jazz Guitar"; (Pacific Jazz TOCJ-9318, 2001 Japan)
Interestingly, there at least three public domain versions of this on Pan Am, WaxTime, and Jazz Images. Level-matched and switching back and forth with the CD in my listening chair, I couldn't reliable say which version was which. Jim Hall's guitar sounds extremely natural and vibrant, with excellent definition and separation. Oddly enough, the LP has just a hair more high-end. Vinyl me, please.
Spiral Records 8105260, Oscar Peterson Trio, On The Town (mono); (Verve 314 543 834-2, 2001)
This is another A/B comparison where I really can't hear any difference. Peterson's piano sounds natural and has great dynamics from the whispered trills to the solid bass notes. Peterson's humming accompaniment and the light background tinkling of glasses in this live recording from Toronto's Town Tavern makes you feel like you're sitting right down front. Get the LP since it has a bonus track,
Jazz Wax JWR 4591, Nat King Cole, Welcome To The Club;
(Audio Fidelity AFZ-153, 2013)
The hybrid SACD was remastered by Steve Hoffman, and the stereo layer is fabulous. But, wow, so is the sound on the LP. On both, the soundstage is wide and deep and the horns are just perfect, alternatively sweet and brassy. The bass on the CD is a little tighter and more defined, but Nat's voice on the LP seems to have the slightest bit more texture. A toss-up, but the vinyl has a bonus track.
DOL 810, Clifford Brown Memorial Album;
(Blue Note RVG Edition 7243 5 32141 2 8, 2001)
Compared to the CD, the vinyl sounds anemic -- thin with no bottom end. Switching back and forth on the cut Hymn Of The Orient, Art Blakey's kick drum just about disappears on the LP, and Brown's trumpet loses its luster. No contest. The Blue Note RVG CD remasters were not universally well received, but this one sounds very fine to me. Plus the CD has extensive new liner notes and a bunch of bonus tracks and alternate takes. No contest.
Jazz Workshop JW-069, Blue Mitchell, Blue's Moods;
(Riverside Records - VICJ-61057, 2003, Japan)
These both sound outstanding, with realistic texture and a great analog feel. The CD is a Japanese XRCD copy and sounds as close to analog as any CD I have. Still, the feel of Roy Brooks's stick on the snare and Sam Jones's finger on the bass strings seems the slightest bit more "right in front of you" on the vinyl. No bonus tracks, but you do get the fabulous 12" photo of Mitchell on the cover.
If these two aren't mastered from the same source, I'll eat my hat. I literally cannot tell these apart. OK, the vinyl sounds a bit more analog -- because it is! And honestly, what it really sounds like is a digital file that's been cut to vinyl. Once again this RVG Edition CD sounds fine to me. However, the Vinyl Passion release is a double LP with both volumes for the same price. Fugetaboutit, get the vinyl.
DOL 978HG, Muddy Waters, Folk Singer;
(HD Tracks 24-192 digital download, 2016)
This acoustic Muddy Waters set is so intimate that if you close your eyes it feels like you're in the studio. It doesn't seem like a fair fight to compare a public domain reissue to the stunningly good HD Tracks 24-192 digital download. And yet, the vinyl only loses by a hair, with ever so slightly less air. On the other hand, the vinyl has a "Deluxe Gatefold" jacket (the original did not) with extra studio photos. There are five bonus tracks. My recommendation: get both.
Vinyl Lovers 6785432, Chet Baker, Quartet: Russ Freeman Chet Baker; (Mosaic Records, MD3-122, 1987)
Wow, what a great band! Leroy Vinnegar on bass and Shelly Manne on drums round out the quartet. The digital copy I have is the 1987 Mosaic Records 3-CD set of The Complete Pacific Jazz Studio Recordings with Russ Freeman. This session dates from November 6, 1956. I would wager that the 1987 Mosaic remaster is the digital source for the LP. The two sound identical to me. If you are a Chet fan, the Mosaic box set's extensive notes and session information are a goldmine, but you don't get the great original cover.
Conclusions
I now have about 50 public domain titles. With a couple of exceptions, they are all pressed by GZ Media (formerly gzvinyl) in the Czech Republic on 180-gram vinyl. Not one of the titles is warped, off-center, or has any surface noise to speak of. In terms of quality control, GZ is head and shoulders above all but the top few audiophile pressing plants in the U.S. Whatever sources the public domain labels are using, almost all of them are clean, quiet, and well-mastered. (There are a few clunkers that are compressed and just plain bad-sounding, but only a few.) The album art (or alternative art) on all of them is nicely reproduced on quality stock. Many of the albums have bonus tracks which are not on the original pressings. Nearly all of the albums include a nice poly-lined dust sleeve. Copies are readily available at many retailers and from Discogs and Ebay sellers. I am paying anywhere from $12-16 per LP (2021 update -- more like $20-25 now).
The vast majority of the public domain titles that I have purchased are produced using Direct Metal Mastering (DMM). DMM (as the name suggests) cuts the source directly to a copper disk, eliminating a couple of the steps needed to turn a lacquer disk into a stamper. You can read more about the process and lots of discussion of the pros and cons of DMM online. I'm almost certain I could not reliably guess which process was used by listening to a random record. In my experience, DMM records tend to have a slightly more pronounced and detailed high end. Purists would say that DMM sacrifices some of the warmth of vinyl, making LPs sound somewhat more digital. Like most people over 60, I can't hear much above 12-14kHz anyway, so I find a little high-end boost to be a good thing. To my ears, even LPs created with Direct Metal Mastering sound warmer and more pleasing than digital copies.
The bottom line is that I continue to believe that public domain reissues are a good value. And while it's instructive to compare these reissues to digital files, the real test for me is that when I'm listening to a public domain LP, I almost never find myself wishing I had a better-sounding copy.
Enjoy the music!
Great post - thanks. I love trying out these PD releases as you often get some tremendous values.
ReplyDeleteHere are some of the best sounding ones I've picked up of late:
Peter Gunn by Henry Mancini on DOL. Incredible sound. I have an original pressing of this record on RCA and the DOL version is more enjoyable in every way.
Dave Brubeck, Take Five on Green Corner. Double album with stereo and mono mixes. Extraordinary. Rich and warm.
Gerry Mulligan/Paul Desmond Quartet on Doxy. Big, warm mono sound.
Charlie Parker, Jazz at Massey Hall on Wax Time. Again, a big mono sound that fills the room. No digital edginess whatsoever.
Billie Holiday, Live at Carnegie Hall on Pan Am Records. Delightful sound and a beautiful gatefold sleeve with some great photography.
Some that didn't impress me:
The Atomic Mr. Basie on Jazz Images. This is from a French label that celebrates great French jazz photographers by using their images rather than original artwork. It's an interesting idea and the packaging is really stunning. It's a beautiful object, but the sound is flat and lifeless.
Lady Sings the Blues by Billie Holiday on Jazz Time. Sibilant and not particularly pleasurable to listen to.
hello tony here from the uk thank you so very much for such open minded comments i now have some 30 of these releases some are just great my best is quincy jones big band bossa nova sounds just great also several donald byrd lps for£10 £12 each here its all about music not so much the equipment thanks...
ReplyDeleteThanks for your note, Tony. I've got the Quincy Jones LP, which I agree sounds great. I'm a big fan of Donald Byrd, so will check out his public domain releases as well.
ReplyDeleteRegards, Tom
Hi Tom, many thanks for your blog, I've really enjoyed reading about your listening tests and all the info, I've learned a lot.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read some terriblly bad opinions on DOL vinyls a while ago, I looked at the ones I have and thought "mmm, there's something I'm missing here, I don't know what's wrong with these, is there a secret message in them I need to discover with my headphones or something? Can I only play them twice and then the music will be gone? Then I read a positive review of someone just on a website from an online shop. And now I've read your excellent research and it's all clear to me.
I own among others, Saxophone Colossus by Sonny Rollins Quartet, 180 gram DOL and Takin' off by Herbie Hancock, also 180 gram DOL. They both sound outstanding!
Stay well!
Best regards, Kevin from Madrid - Spain.
Kevin,
DeleteThe reason I started looking more closely at the public domain reissues in the first place is because I had read a bunch of negative online comments about how bad they sounded, and I wanted to hear for myself. So I bought a few albums a couple of years ago when I was in Spain (at the FNAC in Madrid!)
When I got home, I was pleasantly surprised at how good they sounded. So now I've got about 50 of them, and except for two or three, they all sound great. If I were made of money, I'd love to have original pressings of all these great titles. But since I'm not, I'm very happy to have the public domain copies.
Regards and thanks for reading,
Tom
Horrible pressings from digital sources.
ReplyDeleteHi, Elle,
ReplyDeleteWhich ones in particular do you think are bad? Most people, myself included, who have compared the public domain releases to other versions find the quality to be pretty good, especially for the price. Yes, they are from digital sources, but so are most new vinyl releases. Many of them sound great. The public domain pressings are almost all done by GZ Media in the Czech Republic. I've got nearly 200 records pressed by GZ, and almost every one is flat and quiet. They have much better quality control than all but a handful of US pressing plants.
Cheers, Tom
Thank you Tom. I really am grateful to you and have referenced your documenation a few times. I agree that it is nice to get a vinyl clean copy of a rare or scare Jazz LP. I am hoping some of the Prestige of Etta Jones is reissued and John Wright Trio's Prestige South Side Soul . I am looking now at a Blossom Dearie LP on Del Ray and was sceptical. I appreciate your research. And your sharing. Thank you. Paul
ReplyDeleteAnyone have an opinion on this vinyl reissue label from Italy? Jeanne Dielman
ReplyDeleteI've read both of your posts about public domain jazz record companies after reading on various forums how lousy the quality is on these public domain labels. I got back into vinyl during the pandemic and doubled down on public domain Duke Ellington records, mostly from the '50s, but some as late as '62, which I see now is the tail end of the copyright expiration date. Which means I'll probably never find an affordable Duke Ellington record released after 1962 -- if I find one at all.
ReplyDeleteFrom 1962, I picked up Featuring Paul Gonsalves, Midnight in Paris, Duke Ellington Meets Coleman Hawkins, Money Jungle with Charles Mingus and Max Roach, Duke Ellington & John Coltrane, and The Feeling of Jazz. Great stuff. I already had some of these on CD, but I haven't touched the CDs since getting them on vinyl. They all sound good to me on my half-decent though not obscenely expensive stereo system. These albums were made for vinyl, the whole vinyl experience.
Most of the Duke Ellington is on Wax Time, but the one that stands out that isn't on Wax Time is Festival Session on the Jazz Images label. I appreciate the cover photograph by Jean-Pierre Leloir probably more than the original album cover, and it's a gatefold. Makes me want to look out for more releases on the Jazz Image label. A quality product -- and somehow the cheapest off all the Duke Ellington I've picked up at $22 Canadian. I usually pay between $25 and $30 on Amazon. $15 is unheard of it, but that's the Canadian dollar for you.
I've picked a lot of other classic jazz albums through these public domain labels and have only had a problem with one record. It's Dave Brubeck's TIME OUT on the Vinyl Lovers label. It's okay, but the Columbia CD of it sounds noticeably better.
I understand why some audiophiles wouldn't want to touch these public domain records, but for someone like me who wants to get into this era of jazz music through the vinyl experience without spending a fortune (on records or a stereo system), this is pretty much the only way to go. Of the 16 Duke Ellington records I've picked up the in past year or so, only two of them were released on non-public-domain labels, and as far as I know, they can't be purchased new through any other means. I'd gladly buy them from more legitimate labels if the price was right.
I'm hoping one of the public domain labels (or the original label) releases Satchmo Plays King Oliver. I love this stream of classic jazz records that I have easy access to now.
It's too bad I'll probably never be able to afford or even find anything released after 1962.
Thanks for your note. You can never have too much Ellington - America's greatest composer.
DeleteSince I've been collecting LPs for a long time, I have a bunch of Ellington's original releases and reissues from the 60s and 70s. However, you mention several public domain titles that I don't have, so I'll definitely check those out. Like you, I've been very happy with the sound quality of almost all the public domain titles I've bought.
I've recently gotten a number of reissues on the Jazz Workshop label. While there is no Ellington, there are some great titles that are just about impossible to find anywhere else -- and they sound great.
Regards, Tom
Well, I also did a comparison between a Audiophile reissue by Analogue Productions and a Jazz Images version of the debut album from Helen Merrill (with Clifford Brown), but the difference was extreme between these two. The vocals from Helen are so much more detailed and natural. You hear the detail in her voice and phrashing. Also the instruments sound so live like, when you think that it's mono record to begin with. It's a fantastic recording. Now the version of Jazz Images sounds good, her voice is fantastic and natural, but it misses the details, so it loses it's live like/you're in the studio sound. The instruments are more glued together. Which is shame but the difference in quality comes with the price. The Analogue Productions version is about 45 euro and the Jazz Images around 16 euro's.
ReplyDeleteSo is the Jazz Images version bad... no it's very good release instead but with the traits of a digital source. But the sound is good and very clear. So for what it costs you get a nice record, but when your system is in the higher range, things get noticible so then it's whiser to get the AP version. Otherwise get the Jazz Images version, you will be enjoying a fantastic record!
I'm not into buying these Spanish labels but I only do it when the record is otherwise almost unavailable. But when a records get available as a new original reissue like the Tone Poet or the Classic Vinyl Ressiue/BN80 series I replace it. Otherwise I listing to the WaxTime version, but only when no other version is available without paying 200~2500 euro's.
Hi Melvin,
ReplyDeleteI agree. If an Analogue Productions or Tone Poet pressing is available, it will definitely sound better -- especially with a revealing system. However, there are a bunch of great jazz albums that are impossible to find and that are never going to be reissued on an audiophile label. And there are bunch of other jazz albums that I kind of like -- but not enough to pay $50 for. So public domain reissues can be a great way to fill the niche.
Regards, Tom
Hi Tom
ReplyDeleteThanks, yours is a thorough and stimulating comparison of public domain vinyl and authorised sources. Much appreciated. I have a DOL Harry Belafonte 'Calypso' that sounds fine on very good turntable and hifi.
I will keep buying them, with the awareness that some may disappoint, but the price and range are some balm for the risk. Cheers from OZ, Brett
Brett,
DeleteThanks for your note. I've got lots of public domain LPs and am pleased with just about all of them. However, I mostly buy public domain copies when the original is hard to find or very expensive. And as you mention, even if the public domain copy doesn't sound great, at least it's not a big investment. As for Calypso, it sold so well here that it's relatively easy to find a VG+ or NM original for less than $10 US. I realize that may not be the case down under, so I'm happy to hear that the public domain copy sounds good.
Cheers, Tom
I've had a chance, since my last comment, to listen to several of my public domain jazz records on a better stereo system. From the surface noise, to certain frequencies of the recording not really shining through -- yup, it's not always ultra high quality stuff. While some public domain pressings were still excellent, the shortcomings of the vinyl in some pressings were amplified on the high end stereo. They're immediately noticeable.
ReplyDeleteHowever, none of it makes me cringe -- yet. I listened to, but didn't purchase, a public domain pressing of KIND OF BLUE, and it was not good. I can't remember the label. Someone not familiar with a pristine CD release might not notice the difference, but I noticed the difference right away, and it just bad (to me anyway).
Overall, though, most of the public domain records, many that I couldn't get my hands on otherwise, have been worth the cash I forked out for them.
I have more than 100 public domain LPs at this point and am happy with just about all of them. They don't all sound great, but nearly all of them sound pretty good on my high-end system. And more importantly for me, they are all albums that are just about impossible to find anywhere at a reasonable price. For these rare and expensive titles, if the choice is spending $20 on a scratchy VG copy of the original or a brand new public domain copy, I'm going to take the public domain copy every time. That said, Kind of Blue is easy to find and is worth spending more on to get a good sounding copy.
DeleteTom
Great posts! I came across them when researching several reissues I purchased recently from DOL (Miles Davis' Birth Of The Cool), WaxTime (John Coltrane Quartet's Ballads), Vinyl Passion (John Coltrane's Live At The Village Vanguard) and one you haven't reviewed -- 20th Century Masterworks (John Coltrane's Giant Steps). Every one of these reissues sounded fantastic.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of negative reviews on Discogs, which seem to be balanced between mundane and misplaced concern over legal copyright issues and quality related to digital sourcing, with some writing off digital sourcing from the get go. That latter reaction is especially interesting, and arguably amusing, given the recent revelation in a Washington Post article that Mobile Fidelity has long concealed the digital step in its process, with audiophile snobs being none the wiser (https://www.washingtonpost.com/music/2022/08/05/mofi-records-analog-digital-scandal/). The whole article is well worth reading, but one quote stands out: “I never would have ordered a single Mobile Fidelity product if I had known it was sourced from a digital master.” I still can't stop laughing at that one...
So yes, your overall assessment of these PD reissues is great. And I agree with your conclusion - enjoy the music!
Onestone:
DeleteThanks for your note. I have also been amused by the people who previously loved their MoFi reissues but are now outraged because they've discovered that MoFi has been using a DSD transfer to create their "Master Tape" editions. If you can't hear the difference (and I can't), then who cares?
I feel the same way about the public domain releases. They are perfectly legal, and I suspect that most people who trash the sound quality haven't actually heard them. Sure, I'd rather have a first edition Blue Note. But if there is only a marginal difference in sound between a $20 reissue and a scratched $350 original, then I just don't care.
Thanks for reading.
Tom